Cesar Milan?

admin · Cesar Milan?

http://www.dognews.co.uk/animal-o...hisperer-style-training-inhumane/

eilrex

First of all can I say that I have never and would never use force or hurt an animal in any way and I am not saying that I agree with all methods used by Cesar Milan (or other trainers for that matter). But one thing watching his program made clear to me was that it was me that needed to change . I have an extremely handsome very large lurcher called Chewie. When we first found him in 2003 he had been left behind by travellers, roamed the streets and was picked up by the dog warden and eventually, just 3 days before being pts, taken into rescue where he was for about 18 months. He was the pefect dog but with one major drawback - he hated all other dogs and suffered from severe defensive aggression. This wasn't too much of a problem when we lived in rural France, but after losing my husband and moving back to the UK, it was making both mine and Chewie's lives really stressful to the extent that I dreaded taking him for walks. But by watching the Dog Whisperer I started to gain confidence in my ability to control the situation. One thing I changed was that Instead of going out of my way to avoid other dogs, when one approached us, I would ask Chewie to sit and wait till the dog had gone past. Within a fairly short time, he was no longer trying to attack other dogs. It has not been a quick fix by any means as it took time to build up my confidence and for Chewie to learn that not all other dogs were threats, but now, 1.1/2 years later, we really enjoy our walks, especially the monthly ones with about 20 other rescue greyhounds and his new best friend is a lovely little Westie. I know that it was by watching Cesar Milan that I was able to make such a difference to our lives. I suppose that what I'm trying to say is that everybody focuses on the negatives with his training methods and the positives are overlooked. I believe that any training, whether it's for animals or humans, if not carried out correctly has the potential to be dangerous. Chewie is now a PAT dog. Not bad for the "problem child" we originally took on and I am so proud of him.

wrightk-9

i used exactly the same thing i gain peoples confidence and then adress the dog i never never use pinch or e-collors and very rarley do i use slip chains, but i do agree with his phylosophy about exercise and discipline like obedence, agility, these are a type of discipline but people think discipline is a bad thing but it is healthy and u have to discipline your kids y not your dogs,

i like your story it a happy ending for both of you and your dog.

Trustee No2

Im pleased that you managed to find a solution to your dogs problem. Its interesting how you describe the method you used i.e. making the dog sit while other dogs passed, did you use food treats, a toy or praise at the same time when he was a good boy?

John you need to make the distinction between discipline and control. Dogs in agility, obiedience, working trials etc etc require control which is best acheived by using positive training methods and avoiding punishment, discipline, aversives whatever you want to call it. People discipline kids yes but do they Alpha roll, pin or yank them on a choke chain?? No, so why do we think its acceptable to do so to dogs?

As for Cesar Milan he has taken dog training back 20 years or more. The methods he uses are nothing short of abusive, the theories behind them (dominance, pack rules) are tenuous at best and at worst, simply wrong. As for projecting energy or whatever he does thats just a gimmick and allows him to peddle his rubbish, his understanding of dog communication is useless or else he would see that in all examples the dog is asking him to stop - shame on the networks for allowing him the air time.

The same criticism I would aim at Jan Fennel and her "dog listeners", althougth they dont seem to advocate positive punishment (P+) the same nonsense about pack rules and dominance is all they offer.

For a serious look at how dogs learn, how to motivate dogs, how to train them using positive methods I would suggest any books by Jean Donaldson, Ian Dunbar, Karen Pryor (espc dont shoot the dog), Sarah Whitehead or Stella Bagshaw.

wrightk-9

i do agree with avery thing you say i do he does use harsh methods, the dog has to be focused and conditioned to follow a certan rout or a combination of tasks in which yes i do mean control, motivation is what i use in my obedence classes as a dog learns by asotiation (sorry bout the spelling) and by correct timing and body signals i also swear by greame sims also "the dog whisperer" english version much more simple and easy and less stress on the animal.

eilrex

wyliecat88

I'm not going to get involved in this one, but I will say I find Milan's "methods" OTT. I was once given one piece of advice, when watching his shows, turn the volume off and watch the dog not him. The dog is terrified that is why it is responding.

I ask this, would I ofhad the same response with Scooby if I'd tried to " pin" him?

tanja

This subject could end up in a huge debate! As far as pinning dogs goes... My shepherd shows massive fear aggression when out on a walk so using this method would achieve bo****ks all other than scare him further!x

wrightk-9

i think that if you tried to pin him you would def not have a face left. i mean look what happened wen it was just getting him in the car lol.

Trustee No2

Elirex - Some dogs find praise and touch very rewarding, especially those perhaps not used to recieving it. My point in asking was to find out why the dog stopped the bad behaviour and its because you have used positive reinforcement to reward good behaviour. In this instance you have also counter conditioned the dog to accept other dogs using the same principle. Bravo if only more people understood there dogs needs!?!?

I say that he has taken dog training back 20 years because trainers in the Uk & USA were making good progress promoting and using positive, motivational training methods i.e. clicker training and Lure and reward. Suddenly this buffoon comes along and were back to "dominating" dogs when they dont understand the concept and using physical force (abuse in my eyes) to "train" a dog. And with the success of the show the public are now using these methods as they believe it to be justified, well if its on the TV it must be right!?!.
Its a fact that using punishment takes skill and timing and if its done right should never need to be used more than twice! Ive seen Mr. Milan pin a dog three times and the dog still behaved the same.

Stephen is dead right, watch the show with the sound off and watch the dogs body language and decide for yourself what is going on in the dogs mind.

I haveto make a distinction here between Milan (Dog Whisperer) and Jan Fennell (Dog Listener). To be fair to Jan F her methods are not aversive and should not be likened to that of Milan....however the theory behind her method (pack rules and her penchant for likening dogs to wolves) is a load of nonsense.

eilrex

Thank you for the reply Gregg. I only ever comment on my own experiences. My dog is very precious to me and I would never do anything that would harm him either physically or mentally. He is quite a nervous dog and I have to be the "leader" for him to remain calm and happy.

I have recently been watching another TV dog training show where the featured trainer is held up as a excellent example of modern training concepts. In one episode I was gobsmacked when, in reponse to a dog lunging at anything that passed, the trainer's answer was to turn in the opposite direction and literally drag the dog along behind by it's neck. To me that is wrong.

As I said before I believe that any method of training, if not carried out correctly,can be potentially dangerous.